Estrada Impeachment Jan, 5, 2001 (AM) Transcripts
JANUARY 5, 2001
(RE: RESOLUTION NO. 909 – INVESTIGATION INTO REPORTED ILLEGAL AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL ACTS OF SURVEILLANCE AND WIRETAPPING ALLEGEDLY BY THE PAOCTF)
AT 10:37 A.M., THE HONORABLE CHIEF JUSTICE HILARIO G. DAVIDE, JR., PRESIDING OFFICER, CALLED THE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL TO ORDER.
THE SERGEANT-AT-ARMS (MR. LEONARDO LOPEZ). Please all rise for the entrance of Senate President Aquilino Q. Pimentel, Jr. and Chief Justice Hilario G. Davide, Jr.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER (CHIEF JUSTICE DAVIDE). The trial of the impeachment case against His Excellency, the President of the Philippines, for the specific incident in question, is now called to order.
Please be seated.
The Sergeant-at-Arms is requested to make the proclamation.
THE SERGEANT-AT-ARMS. All persons are commanded to keep silent on pain of imprisonment while the Senate is sitting for the trial on the Articles of Impeachment against Joseph Ejercito Estrada, President of the Philippines.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Secretary is directed to call the case.
THE SECRETARY (MR. LUTGARDO BARBO). Impeachment Case No. 001-2000, entitled “In the Matter of the Impeachment of His Excellency Joseph Ejercito Estrada, President of the Philippines, for Bribery, Graft and Corruption, Betrayal of Public Trust and Culpable Violation of the Constitution.â€
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Before we proceed to the investigation proper, the Chair will have to consider this letter dated 03 January 2001 from the Abello, Concepcion, Regala and Cruz Law Offices, Counsel for PLDT, addressed to the Presiding Officer, Chief Justice Hilario G. Davide, Jr., and received by the Office of the Clerk of Court En Banc of the Supreme Court of even date, requesting that under the supervision of the Impeachment Court, it be given access to official copies of PLDT documents submitted by Mrs. Christine Herrera and Mr. Carlito Pablo of the Philippine Daily Inquirer to the Impeachment Court at the time that these two testified before the Court. However, as of date, the Court has not received the documents subject of the letter-request of the Abello, Concepcion, Regala and Cruz Law Offices. Accordingly, the Clerk of the Court, who is the Secretary of the Senate, is requested to inform the Abello, Concepcion, Regala and Cruz Law Offices that these documents so requested have not been turned over yet by the witnesses, Mrs. Christine Herrera and Mr. Carlito Pablo of the Philippine Daily Inquirer.
We shall now proceed to the investigation proper.
The Majority Leader.
THE MAJORITY LEADER (SEN. TATAD). Mr. Chief Justice, yesterday morning, the Court met in executive session to hear the testimony of Lt. Col. Diosdado Reyes, Chief of the Technical Support Group of the Presidential Anti-Organized Crime Task Force, concerning the capability of his group to conduct electronic surveillance. At the end of the session, the Senator-Judges, upon motion of Senator Roco, agreed to lift the executive session cover on that session and to make public the proceedings that took place.
Yesterday also, Chief Inspector Milo Bello Pagtalunan was directed to bring to the Court this morning certain documents requested by some members. I believe he is here now. I propose that we start with Mr. Pagtalunan presenting those documents formally and answering questions, if there be any.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you, Your Honor. But before we proceed to do that, in light of the manifestation and observation and statement of the Majority Leader regarding the agreement yesterday of those who attended the investigation, this last sentence of the agenda under capital letter “E” Investigation Proper, on the second page which reads: “Upon ruling of the Chair, it was ordered that the information elicited from Lt. Reyes should be made in public that being the proper subject matter for an executive session, should be modified according to the manifestation and report of the Honorable Majority Leader that there was a lifting of the order of the holding of an executive session upon motion of the Honorable Senator Judge Roco, duly seconded and unanimously approved later.” In which case, the proceedings gathered therein and the testimony of Lt. Col. it should not be Lieutenant but Lt. Col. Reyes should be made public.
With that modification of the agenda, we shall now call to the witness stand… What’s the Police…?
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Milo Pagtalunan.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Police Officer. Police Officer Milo Bella Pagtalunan.
You may now take your seat, Mr. Witness and you will continue your testimony under the same oath.
Yesterday, you were before the Court in compliance with its order given the day previous for the production of certain documents. And you left the documents with the secretary. Is that not correct?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. That’s correct, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. May we request the secretary to inform the Court if copies of these documents have been given to the members of the Court.
THE SECRETARY. Yes, Your Honor, just this morning.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Considering that copies of the documents have been furnished the members of the Court, any member of the Court may now ask questions on the witness.
THE SENATE PRESIDENT. He wants to speak yata.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, what do you want to say, Mr. Witness?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Your Honor, I would like to request if I may be allowed to correct the misappreciation of facts which I committed last Wednesday, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. On your report?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. On my testimony, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What about your testimony which you would like to correct? What would be your what would be the basis for the correction? Were you able to obtain a copy of the TSN or the transcript of the stenographic notes of your testimony?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Your Honor, last Wednesday, I thought that I was only testifying with regards to the alleged telephone bugging of the members of this Impeachment Court. And as far as I’m concerned, Your Honor, being the officer in charge of the Finance and Logistics Division for almost three months, I’m in any manner I’m not involved in these alleged activities, Your Honor. And I have reviewed the records of our division regarding the purchase of our technical surveillance equipment and I would like to clarify that the money we used in the procurement of our technical surveillance equipment were sourced from our confidential funds, Your Honor.
Second, Your Honor, is there was no realignment of funds with regards to the procurement of our equipment, rather there is an augmentation of our confidential fund from the Commission to meet the budgetary requirements of the Task Force, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So, in other words, what you would like to say is that, there had not been a realignment of the items in the budget for the purpose of augmenting other items to acquire the equipment.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Okay.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Third, Your Honor, is that, I would also want to clarify with regards to the realignment of funds coming from the Special Action Force, Your Honor, there was no such fund… there was no such realignment happened to it, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What is that? There was no such…
MR. PAGTALUNAN. … realignment.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Realignment.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor, from any funds of the Special Action Force, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So, any question from the Honorable Members of the Court?
The Honorable Senator Judge Enrile.
SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Chief Justice, with your indulgence and the indulgence of the Members of the Court who are present, I’m not going to ask any question but I would like to manifest that I have to leave the Court because I have to attend to another more urgent… another urgent matter involving the legislative problems of the Senate. I have to attend a meeting at Westin Plaza.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you very much, Your Honor.
The Honorable Senator Judge Guingona.
SEN. GUINGONA. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes.
SEN. GUINGONA. Mr. Witness, you stated that some of these funds were augmented, is that correct?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. Augmented from where?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Coming from the Commission, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. What Commission?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. The Presidential Anti Organized Crime Commission, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. Yeah, PAOC.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. PAOCC, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. PAOCC Task Force?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Not Task Force, Your Honor, Commission.
SEN. GUINGONA. Ah, the Commission itself?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. I see. So that there was no realignment of any sort from the Special Action Force amount?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What do you mean by “yes”? There was, or there was none?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. There was none, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. Now, you listed the PAOCC technical force, technical surveillance equipment for the years 1999 2000. May I compare this, Your Honors please, with the list that… with the certified, ah, with the “secret only” document?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. I’ll look for it. I guess I’ve left it in my office.
SEN. GUINGONA. Well, at any rate, this Item No. 1 for 25,000, is this for a camera, for a digital camera? You have your list with you? Can you tell us the item?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Item No. 1, Your Honor?
SEN. GUINGONA. Yes.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Excuse me. Do you have a copy of that inventory?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So, probably I can dispense with my own copy, Honorable Judge Guingona.
SEN. GUINGONA. Of course, Mr. Chief Justice.
So, is this Item No. 1, for what?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. For the item listed, Your Honor, on the document.
SEN. GUINGONA. Camera?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Your Honor…
SEN. GUINGONA. Is this for a Camera Kodak 200 M
Digital?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Your Honor, can I refer to your document?
SEN. GUINGONA. No, you have your document that you the list of inventory that you submitted to us which was marked “SECRET”.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. All right. So, can you tell us what is the Item No. 1 which is 25,000, year acquired and the source of fund is Confidential Intelligence?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Your Honor, the Item No. 1 is a Camera Kodak Zoom Digital Zoom Digital.
SEN. GUINGONA. Is it only for 25,000?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. With the permission of the Honorable Judge Guingona, the copy now is with me and will be handed over to you.
SEN. GUINGONA. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
Ah… We have here a camera Kodak Zoom Digital for one piece. Is this 25,000?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. And no camera please, at the back, do not take any picture about that yet.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. And the other items mentioned by you are all corresponding to the list of technical surveillance equipment that you mentioned that you submitted to this Court. Is that correct?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. And they are for 23 items.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Just for the information of everybody, the two minute rule will not apply here. This is not the Impeachment Court trying the impeachment case but only an incident. So, just disregard the call.
The Honorable Senator Judge Guingona.
SEN. GUINGONA. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
So, 23 items here correspond to the 23 items that you mentioned that you stated in the list that you gave us?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. Are these not components of the GA 9?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Nine hundred.
SEN. GUINGONA. GA 900?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. This is not, Your Honor. This is not the component.
SEN. GUINGONA. How would you know?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. As I heard yesterday with our Chief, Technical Support Division, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. I understood that your functions were for finance only and logistics. So, are you telling us something technical now?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. As I said, Your Honor, I heard that yesterday with our Chief, Technical Support Division regarding his testimony yesterday, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. Okay. Can you tell us, explain please, how some of these are not component parts of the GA900?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. I just cannot recall the name of the components of the GA900 you are mentioning, Your Honor, but I’m just sure that these equipment are not part of the GA900 you are mentioning, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. You state here “Confidential Intelligence” and the total is one million seven hundred fifty six, is this all part of the five hundred million Intelligence Fund that was allocated for the Intelligence PNP?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Your Honor, we do not have 500 million fund allocated to the Task Force, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. How much?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Sixty, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. Sixty million?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. And for one year, how much did you spend?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. For?
SEN. GUINGONA. For the year 2000.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. We spent for what, Your Honor?
SEN. GUINGONA. For the acquisition of electronic equipment for surveillance equipment.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Your Honor, I was not able to total the year 2000 acquisition, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. At any rate, is there a difference between the confidential and intelligence fund?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Your Honor, based on the it’s the same, Your Honor. The same source.
SEN. GUINGONA. There is no difference?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. With regards to the sourcing, Your Honor?
SEN. GUINGONA. Oo.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. There is no difference.
SEN. GUINGONA. When you submit this to audit, do you specify the nature and the origin of the purchase?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. How much augmentation came from the Commission?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Sixty million, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. Did that form part also of the Intelligence appropriations for the year 2000 for the PNP?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. For the Commission, Your Honor, not from the PNP.
SEN. GUINGONA. From the Commission.
Can you just enlighten us? I’m a little hazy on this. What is the structure? Are you telling us from the PACC?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. PAOCC, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONANA. What is PAOCC?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Presidential Anti Organized Crime Commission, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. All right. How much is the appropriation for the Commission for intelligence funds for the year 2000?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Your Honor, for the Commission, I’m not very familiar on how much on the appropriation of their budget, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. This is all for now, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you, Your Honor.
SEN. GUINGONA. Thank you.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Any other question on the witness. The Honorable Judge Drilon.
SEN. DRILON. Just some points of clarification. How much is the budget of the PAOCTF? Just to clarify it once and for all.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. For last year, Your Honor, …
SEN. DRILON. For 2000, yes.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes. Sixty million, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. Sixty million. How much augmentation did you get?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. The additional augmentation is 60 million for the confidential, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. So, you have a total of 120 million?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. For the year 2000.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. And out of that 120 million, how much did you utilize for the purchase of equipment for the year 2000?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Your Honor, hindi ko lang po na-total itong nakalista dito…
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. But just indicate the item number.
SEN. DRILON. I think the item numbers would be No. 1, No. 5, No. 6, No. 7, No. 10 and No. 13.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Number 13.
SEN. DRILON. Is that correct? This is all that you utilized for the purchase of the equipment.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. You have no budget for capital expenditure?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Capital Outlay, Your Honor?
SEN. DRILON. Yeah. Capital Outlay.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. We have, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. And what did you utilize that for? Did you not buy surveillance equipment out of that?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. No, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. Ha?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. No, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. So, you are saying under oath that the technical surveillance equipment that you purchased for year 1999 and 2000, are all found in this list that you submitted to us?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. No other equipment purchased?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. No other technical surveillance equipment, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. No other technical surveillance were purchased other than those sourced out of the funds and listing that you submitted to this Court?
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. DRILON. That’s all, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Any further question on the witness? There being none, the witness is now excused.
MR. PAGTALUNAN. Thank you, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The original of the documents that you brought shall remain in the custody of the Secretary of the Senate.
SEN. GUINGONA. Mr. President, I will now return the secret document.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. It’s no longer secret, Your Honor.
Thank you.
Next witness.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, the Majority Leader.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. We were earlier infomed that we would be hearing a police officer today. Of the other witnesses who had been subpoenaed earlier, namely: Generals Cesar Fortuno, Jose Calimlim, Manuel Pangilinan, Ms. Flodina Pasamba and a certain PO Mendoza, not a single one of them had appeared, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. None. They were told to return, were they not?
THE MAJORITY LEADER. I believe the Secretariat should be able to tell us what kind of communications is being kept between the Court and the witnesses.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Can the Clerk of the Court or the Secretary of the Senate inform us regarding these witnesses?
THE SECRETARY. Your Honor, they were advised that they should be ready at any time. And therefore, they were asked to come here everyday because at any time they would be asked to testify.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What would be the pleasure of the Majority Leader?
THE MAJORITY LEADER. May we know, Mr. Chief Justice, if they were advised yesterday specifically to be present here today? Or was that a blanket notice served before we resumed our session.
THE SECRETARY. Your Honor, it was a continuing notice to them. I talked personally with General Calimlim and he informed me that he was going to come.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Mr. Chief Justice, may I ask for a two- minute suspension?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Granted.
AT 11:07 A.M., THE TRIAL WAS SUSPENDED.
IT WAS RESUMED AT 11:09 A.M.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The investigation is resumed.
The Majority Leader.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Mr. Chief Justice, in view of the non availability of witnesses, I move to suspend this particular incident until called by the Chair to another session.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there any objection?
(Silence). There being none, the investigation of this incident is recessed until such time as the Presiding Officer will reschedule to a new date the continuation of the reception of the evidence in connection with this incident.
THE MAJORITY LEADER. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. The Court will have to recess as so announced.
THE INVESTIGATION WAS SUSPENDED AT 11:10 A.M.